Suffolk Notebook: E-Verify and Cell Phone Bills Tabled for Future Votes
Film and security get funds with affirmative votes; toxic sealcoater voted to be banned.
Three bills that would require identity verification, which immigrant advocates said were targeted toward Hispanic minorities, were all tabled Tuesday at the Suffolk County Legislature meeting in Hauppauge.
Two bills would require employers receiving money from the county and employers requiring occupational licenses to verify their employees’ eligibility to legally work in the country, through social security numbers and I-9 forms. Both bills, brought forth by County Executive Steve Levy, were tabled until November.
“Both the Bush and the Obama administrations have promoted the program,” said Levy. “We think voters have a right to know where their legislators stand on the issue before the election this fall, and e-Verify is a common-sense method of checking the accuracy of social security numbers submitted to ensure that employers do not get a competitive advantage through illegal hiring.”
Nancy Dwyer, with Pax Christi Long Island, called it a “lose, lose, lose proposition.”
“Legal or not, Hispanics are once again being stigmatized,” she said. “More losers as a result of this bill would be small businesses, which already feel burdened by the government. And all of us who look to law enforcement for security lose too, since law enforcement will be directed to enforce this.”
A third bill, tabled until the legislature’s June 21 meeting in Riverhead and sponsored by Legislator Kate Browning, WF-Patchogue, would require anyone purchasing a prepaid cell phone to provide two forms of identification. The bill states that prepaid cell phones are “attractive to terrorists and criminals,” adding that verifying the buyers’ I.D. would help law enforcement catch criminals.
Bill to ban toxic tar passes
The county Legislature passed a bill that will make it illegal for paving companies to use coal-tar-based sealcoaters, which have been shown to contain toxic carcinogens.
The legislation, sponsored by presiding officer Bill Lindsay, D-Holbrook, says a particular hydrocarbon in the sealcoating can pollute wetlands, which could kill aquatic life there. At the same time, the bill cites reports that dust in homes where driveways had been sealed with coal tar contains high levels of the toxin, which could kill small children.
Once signed into law, Suffolk would follow Washington state, which banned the sealcoater a month ago. In 2006 Austin, Texas became the fist municipality to ban coal-tar sealants.
Environmental groups such as the Nature Conservancy, Group for the East End, Citizens Campaign for the Environment, the Long Island Pine Barrens Society and the Peconic Baykeeper all supported the bill.
Feds grant Suffolk $189k for security
Suffolk County has picked up a $189,045 federal grant from the Securing the Cities initiative to bolster its systems for detecting radioactive materials to prevent a nuclear attack.
The county picked up the cash as pass-through funds from the New York City Police Department so it can purchase radiological and nuclear detection equipment in the form of a special vehicle to be added to its police fleet.
County shows film industry the money
County lawmakers this week passed a resolution to spend nearly $30,000 to support local film festivals and film projects. Money includes three $6,000 grants to fund local filmmakers who shoot at least 20 percent of their footage in Suffolk County. The resolution also gives $5,000 each to the Hamptons Take 2 Film Festival and the Hamptons Black International Film Festival.
According to the county, past films and television programs shot in Suffolk include Duplicity, Fair Game, Nanny Diaries, Salt, What Happens in Vegas, Boardwalk Empire, Damages, Gossip Girl, Royal Pains, Ugly Betty and It’s a Big, Big World.
Tom Ennis
1:39 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
While I support and advocate for coal tar sealant bans across the US, I want to make a clarification. The statement that the dust from this product in your home could "kill your children" is unnecessarily alarming and unknown at this time. What we do know is that according to the CDC this material at a lower than average concentration can cause low to moderate increase in cancer risk in children exposed to it. That is alarming enough, but it isn't like an alligator lurking in the carpet.
http://coaltarfreeamerica.blogspot.com/
VillageResident
1:40 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
I don't see what all the hoopla about requiring employers to get the FEDERAL I-9 form filled out by employees is all about. That is already a FEDERAL requirement. Am I missing something here???
Regarding Social Security Numbers: Again, that is a condition of being hired. If an incorrect or false SS# is submitted it is caught very quickly. Again, I don't see this being a problem worthy of claiming Race or Ethnic discrimination.
Regarding the Cell Phone Id requirement: That is a no brainer. It's just like the Gun Control Lobby. If you want a gun, you can get it. Requiring Id would only mean a quick trip to a store just across the border into Nassau or even the City.
I think all of this unnecessary and duplicated federal legislation just shows that our County Legislators don't have a clue what their public needs.
Plus, Rabble Rousers who trump the game with the RACE or ETHNICITY Card, have too much time on their hands. Why must everything be against their chosen group.
Greg Martinez
3:01 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
I can produce my my SS# number & my birth certificate, not too mention other identifying info. Have done so numerous times for my education, banking, & employment. Why are illegal immigrants better than me? The notion advocated by some that illegals have any rights is nothing more than political bovine scatology. The law is the law. If you are in the United States illegally then go home or get arrested!
Mary Beth
7:29 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
20 million legal American citizens have no government issued photo ID. The majority of these are minorities, the elderly, and college-aged students. Any legislation that would attempt to penalize them is un-American and should not be tolerated. This was nothing more than an attempt to appeal to the far right for political gain at the expense of tens of millions of our fellow citizens. All across the country Republican governors and legislatures are using these very same tactics to supress voting by minorities and youth.
VillageResident
8:04 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Hogwash!!!
First off EVERY U.S. CITIZEN and every alien LEGALLY in the U.S. has a Social Security Number. If a person is not legal, then they shouldn't be here. That's the LAW!!! So don't cry about a minority not being able to get what is rightfully theirs ... a Social Security number. They were given one at BIRTH!!! If their card or number has been lost ... replacement cards are FREE!!!
We're talking about working in New York State here, Suffolk County to be particular. It's easy to get an official ID and they cost about $10. So if someone wants to work, they have to have some sort of ID. It's FEDERAL LAW that requires positive ID ... not some local law ... FEDERAL LAW!!!
Stop your freakin' crying about Politicians trying to prevent people from voting and EDUCATE those who need help and REPORT those who don't belong here. And don't tell me that some poor bloke can't afford the $10. Take some of your wasted energy and go RAISE some money and LOAN them the money so they can get their ID's!
If they're legal, it's easy. If they're not, why are they here in the first place taking jobs from citizens and legal residents and draining Federal, State and Local coffers.
.
8:47 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Village Resident: Your comment is near perfect. The one blemish....
The undocumented aren't taking jobs away from anyone. The jobs are provided to them by your fellow American. Without an employer than can be no employee.
VillageResident
11:14 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Mr. Lynch, I agree with you regarding Employers giving undocumented persons jobs. They are as much of a problem as the illegal workers are. They both are in violation of Federal Law and are vulnerable; Employers to stiff fines, Illegals to deportation.
VillageResident
1:41 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
HOGWASH a third time to you, Mary Beth!!!
I just read that report you were quoting. The premise of the survey was how many americans had "readily available documentation."
The survey even mentions most likely 32 million woman don't have an ID in their married name.
But wait, the report doesn't say that they CAN'T get the documentation if needed, just that they are included in the statistic if they can't put their hands on it in a day.
I'd say you have grossly misused the statistics by implying things that are not even a part of the study.
BTW: the total of 987 randomly selected voting-age Americans were polled and the percentages extrapolated from that very small sampling. But nowhere in the summation of the statistics was the suggestion that those without pristine proof of ID could not obtain it or that the lack of a 100%, proof-positive ID would cause a problem.
Here's a link to that report: http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
Mary Beth
9:06 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Village resident, your irrationally angry response to my post is proof positive that this legislation was proposed solely to appeal to far right idealogues. It is also clear that you did not actually bother to read my post before going off on your rant. I was referring specifically to the issue of photo id's. I quoted statistical facts that are easily verifiable and you responded with the over the top personal insults that are typical of people interested not in solutions, but hollow rhetoric. Frequent use of exclamation points does not make your diatribe any less nonsensical.
VillageResident
11:04 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
I repeat --- HOGWASH!!!
My original comment was far from irrational. Explain how my statements about existing Federal Law requirements comes from the "FAR RIGHT?" Federal Law is Federal Law.
I was specifically referring to ID's and the EASE with which LEGAL residents and Citizens can get them. This is New York State and this is where YOU are complaining. $10 is all it takes to get the REQUIRED ID to be allowed to work by FEDERAL LAW.
My statements were not HOLLOW RHETORIC but F.A.C.T. I was offended by your introduction of RACE and ETHNICITY into the discussion.
If you are so upset that 20 Million US Citizens or Legal Aliens need proper ID, I already told you to mobilize and HELP them get it.
If you are stating that we should give ILLEGAL Aliens such documentation then I suggest you take that to Congress.
Again, I never intended to INSULT anyone nor do I feel I have INSULTED anyone except those who are here illegally.
Talking about irrational behavior, take a look at your post. Like I said originally, why are you playing those cards.
It's a no-tickie/no-shirtie deal. If you don't have ID and an SS# you don't work.
Oh, and not once in my "Diatribe" did I make a "Personal" insult toward anyone of any ethnic background or any race. Seems like you are trying to stir up a problem where there is none.
VillageResident
11:20 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
And one more point: I stated that this County Legislation was meaningless because it is already Federal Law.
Perhaps I was a bit stinted in my statement when I suggested Legislators had better things to do because they must have more important matters to deal with than duplicating Federal LAW.
PATRIOT
9:25 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Dennis Lynch ; great point!
PATRIOT
9:26 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Gregory Martinez ; great point !
Annie D.
10:42 pm on Saturday, June 11, 2011
Mary Beth, why do you state that college-aged students don't have ID's??? To attend college one needs a social! Oh, unless you are talking about the students that go to college for free because they live here illegally. Oh, that must be it. We pay our taxes, they don't, we pay for college, they don't and they don't even need a social...oh, those people....got it! Right on Village Resident!
Mary Beth
7:11 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
College id's are not considered a valid form of photo identification
VillageResident
8:40 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Mary Beth again you did it AGAIN!!! You are twisting twist what is being said. Annie D. did not say "college ID" she said ID!
Plus, you don't say WHAT College ID's are good and not good for. Additionally, I think you will find that to register for college you need a GOVERNMENT issued ID as proof of who you are.
Remember that report you love so much, narrowly defines what is a VALID ID. One that's 100% correct, unexpired with the correct name and address. Go look at YOUR ID. Is it 100% correct? Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Are you one of the 32 million married women whose ID's are not valid?
Like I originally said in response to your argument about ID's being unavailable to so many that even checking them or requiring them was an affront to a whole boatload of minorities: HOGWASH!!!
I'm sure you know where the quote "Build it and they will come" is from. I say for anyone here in the U.S. LEGALLY, "If they want it, they can get it."
Your trying to turn something into a race or ethnic cleansing issue is totally off base.
Once more I will say, there are FEDERAL LAWS in place and local legislation is not necessary. That is my whole point. Stop muddying the waters with your misdirection.
JOYCE LIONA
6:44 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
The issue is to enforce the laws instead of spending more money and time creating new ones on the same issues. Look at the redundancy of the laws and ask why?
Josie
7:06 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
After 9-11 anyone living, working or breathing in this country needs ID. People have become too complacent, too soon. If you don't want to provide ID, theres a reason for it. I would never think of going to another country without the proper identification. If you want a phone, show ID, if you dont have it or dont want to show it then get some ID or dont get the phone, use a land line instead.
My grandmother and great grandparents came to America in the late 1930's to escape Germany. Their car and milk truck were fire bombed during WWII. They were questioned and kept under surveilance by the US government. Yet, they got social security cards, learned English and paid their taxes. They never resented our government.
This law doesnt target Hispanic immigrants, it doesnt target Hatian immigrants, it doesnt target Middle Eastern immigrants, it doesnt target Canadian immigrants, it doesnt target Cuban immigrants, it doesnt target Asian immigrants... it protects US citizens.
VillageResident
8:46 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
You are totally correct Josie. Requiring ID only targets those who are here illegally.
Mary Beth
7:19 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Village resident, I suggest that if you are so upset perhaps it is you that should help citizens get official id's before they become victims of a law you suppor. After all, you claim you are only concerned with illegals and I am sure you would hate to see citizens caught up in this proposed legislation.
VillageResident
9:24 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
There we go again Mary Beth. You're the one who claims there is a problem and minorities are being targeted by the proposed County Legislation. Now you are contending I'm the one with the problem.
The statistics you referenced only claim millions of people can't put their hands on a 100% correct, VALID Government issued ID in less than a day. That's all the report says.
Anyone who is in the US LEGALLY who needs one can get a corrected ID. Therefore your call stating it is an affront by requiring ID's is a non-issue.
Like I said, if they want it, they can get it!
Using statistics from the survey you referenced, I say the your argument falls apart.
Let's look at air travel. In the last year I'd estimate that over 750 million passengers flew in the US. You cannot get through security unless you have a VALID ID. That means 64 million passengers were women who didn't have a valid id must have been refused boarding because their ID was not 100% correct.
If that many women were refused boarding it would have exploded into a National Issue and be at the top of the news. I've never heard the least bit of a rumble.
Once more I say, HOGWASH!!!
ID is not the problem you claim it to be. Unless of course you are not a legal resident of the US. To them I say, get legal or get out.
You're the one who is upset not me. As I originally stated, if YOU are so upset then stop this ridiculous argument and do something. I don't feel citizens are the least bit at risk here in SUFFOLK!!!
PATRIOT
9:34 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
ID : is necessary ; like someome said ; would YOU go to another country without ID . ? Definitely NOT !
Unless YOU intended to sneak in .... Evading local Border
police etc. YOUR INTENTIONS ; criminal from the onset of YOUR ILLEGAL entry into that country .
I travel extensively and UNLIKE the other mentioned ;
I possess a Gov. Issued PASSPORT ; DRIVERS LICENSE ; SOCIAL SECURITY CARD and a VOTER REGISTRATION CARD ;
all VALID FORMS OF ID .. I EXPECT to present it to ANYONE who requires it ... Gov agency : Border Patrol of
ANY country and of course a phone co.... No problem ..
PROUD to be ME ...STOP DEFENDING ; criminals who
break laws at every turn ; REFUSE TO ASSIMILATE etc.
How about requiring ALL "illegals" of any origin ; to
without delay turn themselves in to a local Police agency
so they can be photographed ; fingerprinted and to state why the left thier home country . Baseline info to discover
IF indeed they are wanted by any foriegn country ; have criminal records elsewhere ; and begin the process of being ae to be identified .. Security is a valid issue NOT knowing who your dealing with ... Burgularies are more common ; drunk driving offenses ; even murder has come to town ...This phone issue is a no brainer ...
ID you get phone .. Non you get non ...
Simple really ... VOTE FOR POLITICIANS WHO HEAR YOU AS CITIZENS ; ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY!
VillageResident
9:57 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Just a little correction to your statement about VALID forms of ID; An SSN card is not a valid ID card. It is an important document which the SS Administration suggests keeping in a safe place and NOT to carry it on your person.
A Voter Registration card is not considered a VALID ID. It does not contain a government issued photo.
The most prevalent forms of ID are ones that contain a photo and are issued by a Governmental authority. They are a Passport, a Driver License or a State issued Photo ID.
Annie D.
11:10 am on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Duh, Mary Beth...in response to my June 11th post and your June 12th response. Village Resident said it perfectly...I didn't say college ID, I said ID. One needs a social to get into college. You sound like the one who wants to bend the LAW. Why are you so angry towards those who want to follow the LAW that everyone should be her LEGALLY?
SashaK
12:35 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
am not going to waste my time going back and forth between left and right or any race issue. None of it plays a part in the bottom line of American law. Last I checked when I started a new job ..guess what?? I needed to supply identification. Last I checked when I re-registered by vehicle or bought a car I needed to supply identification. Last I checked when legal Americans are born..We are given a SS Number that we would carry throughout our lives . Last I checked every single paycheck gets taxed to smithereens. Last I checked the money I either save or spend to survive get's taxed once again. I am so fed up with all this business with American's having to accept everyone else when we are in trouble ourselves. Seriously..someone wants to come to this country than do it the right way. Live by American laws. Why on earth do we have to keep tip-toeing around those that do not do the right thing in this country..Often the fantastic Florida Congressman Allen West says We live in "These United States Of America" America has long been a melting pot. People from all over the world have always dreamed of coming here and our legal immigrants did it proudly.My Mother-in-Law and several members of her family came here legally. The did what is required to become Citizens of The United States of America. Why should people who come here illegally get the same rights as legal Americans. -Continued...
SashaK
12:53 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
If people want to come here than just do it legally. Instead..the race card get's thrown all over the place... Now..let's move on to the"health care" end of it regarding illegal's. (Again..doesn't matter AT ALL the country you came from) The hospitals are always taking care of illegal's and guess who ends up paying their bills?We do. US. The legal taxpayer. Why? Because they have our address and will taunt the life out of us for 20.00. The illegal? Well they just get to walk away. How fair is that? I had a family member that was in the hospital a few months back. He was in the trauma unit then put into one step down from Intensive Care. In the room with him was a man, who was of Latin decent, and could not speak a bit of English. He got a translator. He got a social worker that got him Emergency Medicaid. He had a major surgery. Was on pain pills, IV antibiotics and whatever other med's he needed. He was bathed each day. Was fed 3 full meals and throughout the day was offered water and coffee or tea or anything that may have been left over in the "secret" stash supply room of drinks and uneaten food or ice cream. He was getting rehab. He will then walk away without paying a dime ..why?? because he was illegal and nobody will be able to find him. My father on the other hand..who even though he has health insurance has to pay thousands of dollars along with continuous medication costs and therapy after leaving the hospital.-Continued
SashaK
12:53 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
--My father worked his entire life..paid his taxes..did charitable work ...yet now is saddled with high hospital and medical bills at his elderly age. But hey..when anyone ever talks about being upset with someone who is here illegal we are supposed to just shut up and allow it all because if we say anything well then..oh..that must mean we are racists. Well..I got news for anyone who is listening. Ya know the Tea Party?? You know that group that everyone thinks are racists? Well I am here to tell you they ARE NOT and would not put up with any member who was. I am so fed up with the ignorance and direction of this country. For heaven's safe this administration is shoving socialism down our throats all the while approaching communism and you know what? We don't want it. Maybe some do. I know I don't. I Love Freedom, I Love Liberty, I respect the American law , the Constitution and I want less government. I want people to do the right thing. You want to come here? Again..that's fine BUT do it legally! That's the end of the story.
Constance Allison
1:26 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Sasha, you know this man's legal status how? Based on the fact that he didn't speak English? You know who paid his bills how? For the poster above who said everyone got a Social Security card at birth. Not true. It is the case now; it was not the case in the 1950s, 60's, etc. So there are quite a number of people, American born, who do not have Social Security cards or other government-issued identification.Also, Social Security cards aren't generally accepted as proof of identification, and they aren't proof of citizenship. A Social Security card is used only to establish eligibility to work. Check the list of documents needed if you get a new job.
Mary Beth
3:26 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Constance, you are exactly correct, social security cards are not a valid form of ID nor are they proof of citizenship. What is most amazing to me is that those who so profess to be about "law and order" and "the constitution" have absolutely no idea of how things actually work in this country. They hear something on Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh and then, not only do they unconditionally accept it as fact, but they go out and spew the same nonsense themselves.
Annie D., I was not trying to misrepresent what you said, I simply misread the statement and I apologize.
SashaK
3:30 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Constance..I know this man's legal status because I understand spanish, spoke to him and was there during all of this. I was there for 5 days/nights since my father was in the bed right next to his.. Instead of immediatly defending this person you do not know how about believing what I just said in regardings to the story I just told. In order for someone to be an American Citizen..they must speak English. For the record he was not here on a work visa either. See you are asking proof from me.."Sasha..You know this man's legal status" yet asking proff of his citzenship is wrong in your mind? This is why this country is getting more destroyed each day.
SashaK
3:36 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Constance..I know this man's legal status because I understand spanish, spoke to him and was there during all of this. I was there for 5 days/nights since my father was in the bed right next to his.. Instead of immediatly defending this person you do not know how about believing what I just said in regards to the story I just told. In order for someone to be an American Citizen..they must speak English. For the record he was not here on a work visa either. See you are asking proof from me.."Sasha..You know this man's legal status" yet asking proff of his citzenship is wrong in your mind? This is why this country is getting more destroyed each day.
SashaK
3:47 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Never in my life would I be as ignorant enough to accept anything as a fact unless I research it inside and out/ upside down and do it all over again 2 more times. Yes..I am a Glenn Beck fan and proud of it! I am a wife and mom of 2 young children fighting to see this country retain Freedom that is getting destroyed on a daily basis as a result of this administration.
Jen LaVertu
4:16 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
QUOTE~ "For the poster above who said everyone got a Social Security card at birth. Not true. It is the case now; it was not the case in the 1950s, 60's, etc. So there are quite a number of people, American born, who do not have Social Security cards or other government-issued identification."
Ok, lets talk about these people. they would be 50-60 years old right about now. Given the fact that soocial secuirty cards were given to track income over time to determine benefits later in life, my main question is how did all these non SS peeps buy food? Without income it must be quite difficult, and some many even say, impossible to find "legal" employment. So are you saying these 50-60 year old almost ready to retire people should all be arrested for taking illegal employment as well as tax evaison for what they never reported from or however they were paying to just eat? Let alone rent??? What about credit? How many of that generation are still living. As far as the crime reports go can we get an age analysis study to show that most crimes are not being committed by the American born almost ready to retire 50-60 year old without social security #'s? It may narrow down the playing field so we know exactly who we are dealing with here.
VillageResident
9:40 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
First off, regarding issuing SS#'s automatically, I actually made a mistake. I checked the SS Website and this is what they have: "Getting a Social Security number for your newborn is voluntary. But, it is a good idea to get a number when your child is born. You can apply for a Social Security number for your baby when you apply for your baby’s birth certificate. The state agency that issues birth certificates will share your child’s information with us and we will mail the Social Security card to you."
So there. I wasn't correct that it was automatic because it can be refused but why would anyone not do it. It seems to me anyone who files income tax needs to have an SS# for a dependent. So, unless for some reason a person would want to hide their child and not claim them as a dependent and get a deduction, only a very small statistical percentage of children don't already have an SS#.
Employers need an SS# for EVERY person that works for them and have to regularly file FICA, Medicare and other Taxes. So EVERY person who ever worked (since 1937) needed an SS# so where is this HUGE group of people who don't have an SS#?
I contend that it is an extremely small number of US Citizens who do not have an SS# that your contention becomes a non-issue!
Oh, one more point: I never said, nor do I remember anyone else saying an SS Card was identification. It is not. BUT it is necessary to legally work and is part of the I9 form.
Mark
10:51 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Let's take this down a notch from ideology and look at what happens in a real situation where two non US born people come to the US. One legally, one illegally - and there paths cross...
Please see the related post and read the comments at:
http://westislip.patch.com/articles/wi-man-killed-in-wantagh-parkway-crash
P.S. For those who want the net/net: An average of 25 people a day are killed by an illegal alien criminal and 12 of those are victims are in killed by DWI. Criminal Aliens are arrested an average of 7 times and 65% are arrested at least once for an immigration related charge. (See: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf ).
This is not about "legislation that would attempt to penalize them is un-American and should not be tolerated". This is not about "an attempt to appeal to the far right for political gain at the expense of tens of millions of our fellow citizens". This is not about "tactics to suppress voting by minorities and youth". This is not about targeting race.
* This is about breaking the law, and enforcing the law. *
And in some cases breaking it many times more then just illegal entry - with tragic results.
Annie D.
11:00 pm on Sunday, June 12, 2011
Mary Beth, your apology is accepted. Sasha, good posts to wake up everyone!